Curse

Shen Xi · Dec 01, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

well anyone on the forums would end up knowing that they got booted out same on the LBS forums probably. that and no referrals and warnings to the repeat customers they have.

gslavik · Dec 01, 2005, 03:12 PM // 15:12

So, besides yelling "he is a scamming graduate with a forgerunner" there is nothing that can be done by LBS. Is that correct?

capitalist · Dec 01, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

This honestly sounds like yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater, when there isn't one.

capitalist · Dec 01, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

So, besides yelling "he is a scamming graduate with a forgerunner" there is nothing that can be done by LBS. Is that correct?

^^

Take a screenshot. I can't beleive that anyone would pay for something up front and not screenshot the event.

gslavik · Dec 01, 2005, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Do you honestly believe that everyone takes screenshots when they pay upfront?

What I am asking is:
1. What makes LBS the "authority" on running from Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge?
2. If there is a scamming graduate, who can LBS do to protect the future customers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

^^

Take a screenshot. I can't beleive that anyone would pay for something up front and not screenshot the event.

Blue Steel · Dec 01, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

The problem with LBSA is that there is no external moderation. All institutions need impartial, independent individuals to check that tutors et al aren't being too generous. In short - LBSA is self-regulating, so there's no way to be sure of the standards of the "graduates".

What we really need is a regulatory authority, though unfortunately there's no one to fund it

I will try once more to explain. I can understand that there is an unwillingness to read old posts, but everyone keeps asking the same questions and making the same points, and I have given the answers too many times in both the thread and PMs to continuing doing so. But I care about honest inquiries, so here we go again:

We are regulated externally like every other runner or running group is regulated: by public opinion and our reputations collectively and mine specifically. However, because we are the oldest, largest, most known, and most successful running group, our reputation is under a heightened scrutiny. People come to this thread or our website for the definitive word on the topic of Guild Wars running. Exactly as has been said above: there is no one else qualified to certify runners. Our standards and procedures are transparent and have been explained time and time again. See post #826 in this thread for explicit details. If we were to deviate from our standards or someone were to be kicked out of this Academy, people would hear about it. Our goodwill is exactly what it is: if we let our standards slide and accept every application that comes in, not only would we have many times the number of people we have now, but we would not be able to ensure the quality and integrity of those runners and people would lose some respect for what LBS stands for. Because we are organized, centralized, and successful, people take the time to describe their experiences with an LBS runner, on a scale and with a passion completely unlike they do for random runners.

If a company poduces computers, and they are better than any other computer out there and always work, people develop a loyalty to that brand. If they immediately fix any problems with a single broken computer slipping through their quality controls (controls that are all "self-regulation"), they will continue to be a wild success and be respected for their professionalism. If the company stops caring and half their computers come out defective and they don't fix them, or one of the regional offices goes insane and starts robbing people, the company will lose respect and lose business. Is this hard to understand? Our certifications are self-regulated, but there is no better regulation anywhere, and we are in turn regulated by public opinion, and there is no better regulation than that anywhere.

People who need exceptional runners come to our website and if we have kicked someone out of the Academy and announced that, anyone who really cares about running will know about it. Their reputation will be ruined because they will be at that time no longer associated with the Academy and will be another one of the thousands of random runners making claims who may be honest and may not be. They will be an unknown again, not able to run the elite clientele who are the foundation of our business and who contact us directly rather than through in game spam. If you don't care about getting professionally run and going to the right source first, or you don't value your time and want to risk being scammed just picking up some random runner in game, then you may not know that someone offering to run you was LBS but then got kicked out and that their claims are no longer valid, but you are no worse off than having a random runner take you. You probably wouldn't even know what LBS is.

I hope that helps. Want to try another fun game, since some people who keep posting in here seem to have a lot of spare time: In Guild Wars, go to any district in any city on any server at any time of day and ask in the public chat: "Who is the most famous runner or running group in Guild Wars?" and see what the answer is. If someone says LBS (which is far and away the most likely answer), ask them: "Have you ever been run by LBS?" Then ask them what they know or have thought about the LBS experience. Maybe they are an LBSRA member! Ask them if they were cheated by a group like LBS whether they would ignore it, or whether they would tell everyone who plays the game about their experience. After you have done all those things, come back and tell me what you found out.

capitalist · Dec 01, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

G-Money-(post #1008)

0. Yes I do.
1. LBS started running Droks at the same time that many other people did. LBS then decided that he/she would cater to high-end clientel. By running the game's elite, LBS built a solid reputation based on a)honesty and b)quality. After being overwhelmed by run requests, LBS took on a partner (Blurr) to help handle the "workload." Shortly thereafter, another partner (Chiara) was brought on board. At this point, LBS was not only receiving requests for runs, but requests for training (I requested training as well). Based on the number of people asking for training, LBS created the Academy, complete with a Handbook that included running theories and builds, marketing tips, and STANDARDS for being associated with the Academy and LBS.
2. This has been answered more than once, suffice to say, if you can provide proof, action will be taken.

Blue Steel · Dec 01, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Here is one last analogy to try to help: Microsoft offers a number of their own certifications such as Microsoft Certified Solution Provider. How can they do this? They aren't the government! Microsoft is a private company! Sure its a huge and wildly successful company, but no one is regulating their standards but themselves! Outrage!!

If you get certified by Microsoft, they send you a certificate or diploma of some kind. There are regular changes to technology, just as there are regular changes to the drok's run. Does Microsoft come to your house and take back that certificate if you don't keep up to date on the changing technology, or if there is a rumor that someone who may have fit your description was seen ripping someone off somewhere?

Jimmy · Dec 01, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

A+ is not a microsoft certified standard.. i got A+ certication.. and it is hardware certicatioin not software....<well there is software part but most is about hardware

>A+ is a ComTIA certification. recognized internationally by the computer industry

btw,i hired some runner from LBS a few weeks ago and he failed to run me to droknar

i have to open my second account to run myself to droknar

Loviatar · Dec 01, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy

btw,i hired some runner from LBS a few weeks ago and he failed to run me to droknar

i have to open my second account to run myself to droknar

not a nasty but did he keep your gold?

or was it simply a waste of a bit of time?

any proof it was actually an official LBS graduate?

name perhaps?

i think these are reasonable questions so please not a bunch of flame. (puts on asbestos jammies*

The Herbalizer · Dec 01, 2005, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I find these wild accusations most amusing. All these idiot trolls screaming an LBSRA member scammed me or failed a run. WHERE IS THE PROOF. Maybe I can start saying you scammed me on a trade over 100k which consisted of gold only.

eol · Dec 01, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindcrime

The client (You?) that refuse to pay? if so.. why did you even post on this thread when the LBS runner didn't do anything wrong. He asked for
the payment before last monk boss and you refuse to pay? Conclusion: LBS runner refuse to complete mission. Was this the purpose you began to questioning us? I'm just noticed the core to this black debate.

you didnt read my last few posts mind crime i described what happened i just didnt want to originally involve myself on this thread as being the victim, becuase at the time i was suspcious of your whole academy

what happened was he ran me died twice once at the necro then at the ranger after having taken my money before the last boss then i recieved a error 7 and was evicted fromt eh game when i logged back in he wasnt in thirsty waiting and i never recieved a wisper from him i was hoping to track him down when i was back the following morning after i ran into 2 more academy runners if you got back and read my post youll see that

Blue Steel · Dec 01, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

This post is a request to members of the Academy and all of us to be kind and civil and remember that this is a game. I think we have decisively won every debate in this thread, and we don't need to beat a dead horse. The point of this thread is to offer a service, not really to debate (though many of us may enjoy a good debate).

eol, if you contact me in game I will provide you ecto equivalent to the gold that was allegedly taken. I will do so as a courtesy. Don't worry about evidence or even providing a name. I will take you at your word that someone represented themself to you as LBS-affiliated and that you did pay them and in the process of your disconnecting you were never able to get the money back.

Mindcrime · Dec 01, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by eol

you didnt read my last few posts mind crime i described what happened i just didnt want to originally involve myself on this thread as being the victim, becuase at the time i was suspcious of your whole academy

what happened was he ran me died twice once at the necro then at the ranger after having taken my money before the last boss then i recieved a error 7 and was evicted fromt eh game when i logged back in he wasnt in thirsty waiting and i never recieved a wisper from him i was hoping to track him down when i was back the following morning after i ran into 2 more academy runners if you got back and read my post youll see that

I read your last posts, but I didn't get the full picture of the earlier posts and the connection with the new ones. I'm glad that we finally found the real story behind all this. It's not acceptable; the LBS runner (we don't even know if he was a real LBS runner. Because we have seen many random people fake advertise being an LBSRA.) should have waited or added you to his friendslist. I suggest that you pm LBS and try to describe what you remember about him in terms of possible "name" or appearance. We want to know the other side of the story from him, if possible.

Thanks for clearing this up.

gslavik · Dec 01, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Microsoft gives you a certificate that says that you know how to use their product. They do not give you a cerficate that says you know how to outcode John Carmack in OpenGL applications.
You on the other hand are certifying that someone can do some task which is the same as colleges giving out a diploma. You are not impartially regulated, the college/university is.

And if I hire someone who holds a Microsoft certificate who doesn't know how to use the Microsoft product for which he holds the said certificate, then I will be going after Microsoft for punitive, moral and mental damages. God be my witness, I can prove to you that I lost 20 IQ points when your runner doesn't make it. GOD DOESN'T LIE!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Steel

Here is one last analogy to try to help: Microsoft offers a number of their own certifications such as Microsoft Certified Solution Provider. How can they do this? They aren't the government! Microsoft is a private company! Sure its a huge and wildly successful company, but no one is regulating their standards but themselves! Outrage!!

If you get certified by Microsoft, they send you a certificate or diploma of some kind. There are regular changes to technology, just as there are regular changes to the drok's run. Does Microsoft come to your house and take back that certificate if you don't keep up to date on the changing technology, or if there is a rumor that someone who may have fit your description was seen ripping someone off somewhere?

gslavik · Dec 01, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

0. I disagree with your answer. I do not believe that EVERYONE makes a screenshot of EVERY transaction.

1. That does not make LBS or anyone else an authority. Especially when the world is dynamic and non-deterministic.

2. "... action will be taken." I got that part, but WHAT action exactly will be taken? The only action that can be taken is to be kicked out of the LBS guild. So far, any answers given are inadequate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

G-Money-(post #1008)

0. Yes I do.
1. LBS started running Droks at the same time that many other people did. LBS then decided that he/she would cater to high-end clientel. By running the game's elite, LBS built a solid reputation based on a)honesty and b)quality. After being overwhelmed by run requests, LBS took on a partner (Blurr) to help handle the "workload." Shortly thereafter, another partner (Chiara) was brought on board. At this point, LBS was not only receiving requests for runs, but requests for training (I requested training as well). Based on the number of people asking for training, LBS created the Academy, complete with a Handbook that included running theories and builds, marketing tips, and STANDARDS for being associated with the Academy and LBS.
2. This has been answered more than once, suffice to say, if you can provide proof, action will be taken.

Blue Steel · Dec 01, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

And if I hire someone who holds a Microsoft certificate who doesn't know how to use the Microsoft product for which he holds the said certificate, then I will be going after Microsoft for punitive, moral and mental damages. God be my witness, I can prove to you that I lost 20 IQ points when your runner doesn't make it. GOD DOESN'T LIE!!!

And you will lose on every count. We have been over this one before. Your complaint would be thrown out immediately under FRCP 12(b)(6) or its state equivalent. Thankfully, the law is not random and is not drafted by people struggling in their 9th grade prepositional logic classes.

eol · Dec 01, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

i sent you a pm lbs feel free to show it to mindcrime if she wants to see it

gslavik · Dec 01, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

LBS, I would disagree on lawmakers not struggling with 9th grade logic.

Also, could you quote what FRCP 12(b)(6) says, because I looked up "FRCP" on google.com which led me to a web site hosted by the Cornell University. The 12th "item" which converted to the roman number system (which it uses) is XII, which is an APPENDIX OF FORMS. I got lost right then and there, as I could not find anything that would be under heading "b" ...

Savio · Dec 01, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

LBS, I would disagree on lawmakers not struggling with 9th grade logic.

Also, could you quote what FRCP 12(b)(6) says, because I looked up "FRCP" on google.com which led me to a web site hosted by the Cornell University. The 12th "item" which converted to the roman number system (which it uses) is XII, which is an APPENDIX OF FORMS. I got lost right then and there, as I could not find anything that would be under heading "b" ...

I'm not LBS, but I got the page directly by using Google, using search terms "FRCP 12(b)(6)".
http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule12.htm

Quote:

(b) How Presented.

Every defense, in law or fact, to a claim for relief in any pleading, whether a claim, counterclaim, cross-claim, or third-party claim, shall be asserted in the responsive pleading thereto if one is required, except that the following defenses may at the option of the pleader be made by motion: ... (6) failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted....